Looking back through four years of lab results, I noticed that one test has almost always come back flagged as "high" - MCH.
Now, I admit, it hasn't been very high, just one or two points over the top of the range, but given that we've turned over just about every rock looking for the source of my fatigue, what if this is the one we've missed?
So I asked my family practitioner why she thought it was constantly elevated. She said that it was likely due to consuming alcohol. *rolls eyes* As anyone with fatigue will understand, drinking alcohol is strictly a special-occassion-one-glass kind of thing, as it puts me to sleep almost instantly.
"Honestly, Penelope...We can't follow every trail you find in your lab results", she said in her usual annoyed voice, "some people just have a higher level than others".
Well...OK, but when I feel AWFUL for years, do you think we could just consider that it might be meaningful?
So, other than knowing that MCH means Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin, what does it indicate (other than alcohol abuse) and is it really normal to be out of range for years on end?
Is it wrong that I'm pissed off at her non-answer?
I don't think it's wrong to be pissed off at all. Your doctor was very dismissive of you, which is never a good feeling for a patient (or an appropriate response). I can relate to her frustration, as it's frustrating at times to not be able to figure out what's going on with a patient, but it's still important for doctors to not externalize that frustration on their patients.
ReplyDeleteAs for the causes of an increased MCH, there are quite a few. Some of the more common include vitamin B12 deficiency, folate deficiency, hypothyroidism, alcohol abuse (which you've already established isn't the case!), liver failure, bone marrow disorders (usually in the presence of multiple other abnormalities on the CBC), and COPD. The important thing to remember about any lab value, however, is that "normal" ranges are determined to encompass 95% of the general population, therefore 5% of the population will have an abnormal lab value despite being completely "normal". Having a high MCV in isolation doesn't necessarily mean anything, particularly if the various causes of a high MCV have already been ruled out.
Please note that this is just a generic answer, and in no way is medical advice! (Have to add in that disclaimer.)
That's BS cause I have a CBC from 2012 and everything is fine. Plus my B-12 levels are high. So now what? All I get from Doctors is "Sorry can't do notin for ya man".
DeleteDid you wait 3 months after B12 shot or supplements, to take that B12 test? angela coral eisenhauer or email me angelaoffer@hotmail.com
DeleteHi SolitaryD,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the very informative (and not-at-all-to-be-construed-as-medical-advice!) response.
My physician's frustrations are understandable, she has looked dozens of possibilities and still not found answers for me.
I just hate that I feel like I'm taking up too much of her time. One of the reasons I joined a concierge medical clinic was to have more access to my doctor.
I wish I could pay for an hour with a doctor, just to talk freely and have my questions answered.
Unfortunately, our system doesn't allow that option; which is too bad, because 10 minute visits are better suited for tonsillitis, rather than mystery ailments.
:-) P.
Penelope, my MCH was high for years, and I wondered the same thing. I would also have low RBCs many times as well. My thyroid TSH test would be all over the place, sometimes over 10, other times below one, with my thyroid hormone being changed to different types and constantly being regulated up and down every 8 weeks. Then 18 months ago, I started to become very, very ill. Now I questioned all of these test results before becoming very ill and I got the same roll your eyes looks from many, many doctors. I am a retired reserach nurse who worked for many years at the University of Chicago and I was treated no different, at times worse because I had the nerve to constantly question my blood work. Part of my nursing was working on an oncology autologous stem cell transplant unit as well. And to top things off to make my doctors more aggravated with me, I am a 17 year breast cancer survivor. I have been plagued with health issues since my cancer. I have had spinal cord degeneration requiring 4 spinal cord surgeries and have had my gallbladder removed. I have been in and out of the hospital for medication reactions as well, strange rashes. As this past year went by, it has been a horror! I became extremely lethargic, my hair started falling out, my abdomin swelled becoming very painful, severe leg pain, headaches, I mean knock down severe headaches, joint and back pain worse than my usual, then my eyes started to hurt, and I became sensitive to the sun. I live in Florida on the beach and I cannot go outside in the sun after 10 am or before 5 pm. It was then determined my iron saturation was low, so I received 10 IV iron treatments. I only got worse. With each weekly treatment I gained 3 to 5 lbs., my leg pain was so severe I could hardly handle it even with narcotic pain medication. The photo and sun sensitivity increased and I became even more edematous, with high blood pressure and tachycardia. Several blood pressure meds have not worked. So then I started getting B12 injections, as high MCH can mean B12 deficiency. I received 8 weekly and now get one a month and was told I would need them the rest of my life. But I am getting worse. Vitamin and mineral deficiencies are adding up. I take high dose prescription Vitamin D and need supplements for many more after micronutrient testing indicated I was severely deficient in other nutrients, even though I eat extremely well, according to Dr. Andrew Weil's anti-inflammatory diet. It was thought I had Lupus because my symptoms just keep piling up. So I started supplementation for Lupus symptoms but still am not better. My doctors, primary care, oncologist, neurologist, gastroenterologist, cardiologist, and rhematologist have given up on me. So I am now seeing an immunologist. It is now suspected that I have a red blood cell disorder of some type. Right now it is leaning towards Porphyria, a rare disorder where the body does not produce enzymes to make the heme in hemaglobin. If I have that, then I should not have received iron treatments. I did what is called a urine poor man's test for Porphyria. If the urine is exposed to sunlight and turns dark it is considered you may have the disease. Mine did turn dark. I have been tested blood and urin for this disease and will see the doctor this coming Friday for the results. But it all started with me having high MCH on my labs for years, then my thyroid tests being off and then it kept advancing. I hope you do not give up. Get another doctor if you have to. I am going to be 60 next year and want to live a life without pain. I wish I would have caught this sooner. Good luck to you.
DeleteI was reading this: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/10/02/dr-huggins-discusses-root-canals.aspx
Deletejust curious...you say you are a breast cancer survivor. Might you have silicone implants - many of the symptoms you describe are the same that I have come across for silicone toxicity - I know the belief is they don't cause problems but I believe mine are causing me problems just like you describe. Maybe it could help get your life back...
DeleteSorry for all you are going through, Beverly. I hope you are feeling much better by now and have some better ideas of what is going on. One thing I DO know from researching in the medical library at our local hospital. There are three different types of B-12. The doctors all give the common variety and it does not work. There is one that does work and I do not understand why they do not use it. Sorry I do not have the name of it in front of me. You can google B-12 and you will see. I know that the elderly suffer dementia from a low B-12 and they are given the shots and they rarely help. My elevated MCH and MCH is from the Methotrexate that I take for a disease and the doctor says I need for life. I recently read an article on the effects of Chemo on the body. Apparently, it damages the body more than the medical profession expected. It documents people who cannot return to work four years after receiving the treatment. Hope you figure this out soon and get some relief! Here is the article about the right kind of B-12 to use. Maybe this might help you! Here is the article. You might have to scroll down aways to find it. http://www.naturalnews.com/027045_vitamin_B12_cyanocobalamin_methylcobalamin.html#
DeleteBeverly...... I know it has been some time since you posted here but I would really like to know what happened with your situation. I am also wondering if you had your antibodies tested for decreases in IgA, IgG and/or IgM among others.
DeleteAlthough I have had high indices of MCH, MCV, and MPV for over ten years now, I was diagnosed with low IgG a couple of years ago, known as Common Variable Immune Deficiency (CVID), also known as hypogammaglobulinemia. With this disease a person is susesptable to secondary diseases. For me, they have been watching for lymphoma. And bone marrow problems. My most recent blood work now shows an elevated wbc, and the mcv, mch mpv continue to be highly elevated. They have always been way over the norm so just not by a point or two.
I also have degenerative disc disease and my most recent lumbar mri showed something going on in the bone marrow. The cervical mri also showed some mass effect with grainy tissue.
With all these new findings for me, it is time to revisit my doctor. He is concerned about a mass that comes and goes on my neck (his words, not mine).
To sum....... I wonder how you have done and also if anyone has any comments about my situation.
Peace......
high dose prescription Vitamin D CAN and WILL KILL YA. Becareful
Deletewell solitary has a good start on it. Those factors are more likely to alter MCV (mean corpuscular volume) in a detetcable way; often the MCH doesn't seem to change appreciably. Basically, if you don't have the stuff you need to make the cell wall (eg. folate) then you make bigger cells and pack more stuff into them (so you have a larger mean cell volume).
ReplyDeleteIf you were acutely anemic and started making a lot of new cells, you might have lots of large, packed ones... but you'll see a wide RDW errrr this is getting complicated... variance in cell size, basically. But anyway, you'd have other abnormalities on the test aside from a big MCV or MCH.
MCH is kiiiind of the same thing but looks at how much hemoglobin is packed in to each cell. This is a calculated not a straight-up measured value. They just divide the Hemoglobin by the RBC - so if your Hb is on the higher end of normal and your RBCs are on the lower end of normal, it could look like you have a big MCH.
Clinically this is rarely relevant and certainly used less often than an MCV. Being a calculated value I think as long as your other indexes are normal, there would never be a reason (or even a way) to further investigate this.
oh looking back at it, that's a terrible explanation! if you were in the office, I'd draw you a picture. That's so much easier :)
ReplyDeleteHi just got back my blood test results my RBC is low and my MCH is high, any suggestions Docotr :)
DeleteI wish I were in your office! Pictures do say a thousand words, don't they?
ReplyDeleteYou and SolitaryD have given me a good starting place to think about my results.
I'm actually wondering if I could have the MTHFR mutation. I'm wondering if one reason for having higher MCV & MCH levels could be not having enough available folic acid to build new cells?
Between my Factor V Leiden, super-low ferritin levels, and treatment resistant depression... I'm thinking it might be worth it to take the genetic test (if I can find it in Canada) and see if my body is making usable folic acid.
Thanks again for shedding some light on this lab result.
I wonder this too because I was recently diagnosed with homozygous c677t and have high mcv levels as well. I can relate to the chronic fatigue I am almost disabled because of it. I recently started deplin and a diet change hoping I can get my life back. By the way I do not have any of the causes contributed to high mcv that were listed above. Good luck and God bless.
DeleteI took folic acid pills and b12 shot, nope still high on both and the white blood cell count floats from just in at 9 to over at 12
DeleteDont take folic acid, that is the CAUSE of our MTHFR problems, its synthetic chemical, has near destroyed me. Join an MTHFR group, get tested. Wish a I had known, I a pathologist, never knew.
DeletePraying you find answers soon - and perhaps a more understanding doctor?
ReplyDelete((hugz))
Jamie
Thanks Jamie, I'm praying for answers too.
ReplyDeleteI wish I knew how to relate with my doctor better.
Also, take into account that every doctor degree only gives them a license in "Practicing Medicine" and yet they all seem to think they know it. It is used in that terminology to relieve them from any real responsibilities when they fuck up and so they can smile with pride when they actually get something right. They are cocky and highly arrogant because they spent so long and so much on their piece of paper that they forget that they are only humans practicing a science that is nearly impossible to master.
DeleteGet tested MTHFR, oh wow, all these threads I read now 100% me,.
DeleteThere is really not a way to relate. Doctors are
ReplyDeletesuperior people. They don't like to be questioned, or
persuaded to see a different viewpoint. Period. I have
seen the syndrome for 20 years, even when they have made blatant mistakes. You have to decide not to believe
in their competence, and to go only so far as your funds
or insurance, and your judgment, will carry you. Use them
as PART of your decision. Don't beat yourself up. Don
I need to tell myself this everyday; it is so true, unfortunately.
DeleteI need to tell myself this everyday; it is so true, unfortunately.
DeleteDoctors are superior people. YA THEY THINK THEY R< to me they are all QUACKS
DeleteI question mine all the time. Some are understanding and actually take the time to explain what they know to me. Others get angry and don't want to see me again. That works for me as they aren't worth the money I'm paying them to work for ME!
DeleteHi Penelope,
ReplyDeleteMy same exact issue brought me to this page and I was wandering whether you have found the cause and/or solution to your slightly elevated MCH levels? I have tried to investigate this further but always got tired of the system and my doctor's responses so I have given up, but not for good though. When I have the energy, I periodically run another round of tests but always encounter the same issues. I moved to another country and I am thinking of looking into this again in hope someone will help me finally.
Please let us know what's the status of your situation. Thanks so much and hope you have found answers.
have you ever had your home tested for mold? it took me years to figure out why i had chronic fatigue!docotrs never figured it out until i told them AND found a specialist. one of my symptoms was elevated MCH
ReplyDeleteIf you take a proton pump inhibitor (prilosec, nexium, etc) for extended periods of time it will inhibit your body's absorption of B12 and folic acids although your body will still absorb it through supplemental b12 and folate. Take supplements to get your MCH levels up and increase oxygen being carried from your lungs into your blood stream. ***not medical advice, just neighborly advice***
ReplyDeleteYou are correct. I have been on Prevacid for years because my stomach was in my radiation field when I had radiation treatment for breast cancer. That was considered the problem for a time, but when my symptoms worsened the past 2 years, my oncologist perked up, especially when my iron saturation tanked to below 10% but I had no active bleeding after numerous tests. So hopefully, yes, for some posted here, I hope it is simply an H2 blocker. Good post!
DeleteSounds like b12 deficiency to me. I had completely normal
ReplyDelete'everything'on the indicators front apart from a slightly raised MCH and a low serum b12 that nobody had bothered to read.. Turns out I also had low ferritin (even though my iron was normal) folate. Without the b12 result my GP would have been looking for the cause of symptoms for ever and a day. Trouble is the serum b12 is not accurate as it measures total b12 in bloods. Total includes haptocorrin which is useless and the serum assay doesn't measure b12 at cellular level. What you also need to have done is MMA and Retic count. Neuro symptoms that would indicate these tests are position and vibratory senses being affected - such as shoulder bumps, foot placing etc. All the other tests can be affected by diet or other deficiencies and therefore nothing in macrocytic anemia shows up, normal MCV, RBC - it's all normal. Also I understand that b12 is acute phase reactive so can go into the normal range simply if you are stressed. Get all three tests done and see how you get on?
Nope not B12 my b12 shots make my levels WAY high 1200 2200 real high B12 levels/ So that's not it. This Mold Idea is interesting. Might check that out.
DeleteI had a portion of my lung removed due to mold exposure. My body mimicked so many illnesses and the fatigue was insane. Its definitely worth looking into. Sometimes standard blood test can detect mold illness. But there is a urine test that is more advanced. Doctors will tell you mold isnt that dangerous. Your over thinking. Here take this xanax. But it almost killed me. I was literally dying. Had been feeling ill for 4 years. Not one bloodtest was ever normal. But it must have been in my head because they couldnt figure it out. A catscan finally revealed a cavity in my lung with a fungal ball. After literally spending at least 3 nights a week a whole summer in the e.r. Mold spores love our fat. That being your internal organs. It just so happen to be my lung. A friend of mine has a mold spore settle in her brain. Making her body mimic diabetes. They removed the tumor. She is well now. Look for the book written by actress Suzanne Summers. It covers alot of what you all are discussing and with physicians they tell you how to help yourself. I think its "Toxic Mold". Its the last book she had published.
DeleteYOU CAN NOT DO B12 tests if you are taking shots, you have to wait 3 months, no shots, no supplements. The results are all skewed. I am a pathologist, my gp doesnt understand.
DeleteFind me on facebook, would love to discuss all this. Mould issues, HLA DR is the final immune collapse. But no doctor, before this, and all my blood tests, reported I was anaemic, now I know I am MTHFR< I know the damn laughing gas, was what sent me nuts, third baby............. Not angry, just upset, that doctors, DONT look into real causes, they just prescribe crap pills.
Delete^ Yes. I would suggest you look into B12 deficiency.
ReplyDeleteDoctors are not really good at collaborating with your medical diagnosis. You just have to keep trying. My new physician did not accept that high blood pressure, high blood glucose (should have had diabetes II diag), high chlor, GERD ect., was normal for my age and physical condition. He put me on a gluten, dairy, and legume free diet and the results were amazing. It all went away except I stayed on the high blood pressure diaretic. I lost 9 pounds of water weight in four days. In a couple of months...I started to have brain fog, confusion, poor memory, horse sh** spelling; anxiety, muscle spasms in my neck and shoulders, fatigue, headaches, IBS, and the list goes on. I went back to same doctor who ran a lot of blood tests then passed me off as beign stressed out. Some of those tests were boarderline low or high but apparently not enough to peak his attention. After that I saw an ETN, two gastro specialists, had aGI scope, physical therapist, barioum swallow test, chriopractor, allergist, allergy testing, gyno (hormones), and a psychiatrist. Yea, I was put on Xanax for anxiety. I stopped using the word "anxiety" to describe my symptoms. Every physican went "she is just stressed." Xanax eventually became a daily medication. I suspected a chemical inbalance or issue so I added a water filtration system at home, change all my storage containers to glass, stopped cooking in plastic in microwave, bought mostly organic food, gone Paleo with my diet, use natural soaps and that list goes one. BP still high so went back to original doctor and I taked and taked. I would not let him leave. He finally ordered a lot of blood tests again. I got the somber phone call the next day. Looks like Aldosteronism, low t4, very low WBC, and high DHEA. Did the spit cordisole test yesterday and did not take any Xanax before hand. The aldosterone test wss not ordered before but the cordisole was and I never got a good answer on that result. I may have goofed that one myself because I was in so much neck and shoulder pain, I used up some old muscle relaxers. After not accepting "anxiety" as a diagnosis but as a symptom, I finally got an answer, not a good one, but an answer nonetheless. Adrenal tumors.
ReplyDeleteStick with it if you do not get the answers you need. I learned from a friend of mine who survived two difference cancers because she knew something was wrong and did not stop until a physician actually listened to her.
Well done, good luck :)
Deletepenelope
ReplyDeleteThere are 2 possible answer endocrine / MTHFR i have similiar MCH readings mine use to be 36 which is high my b-12 were 400 so doc put me on b-12 injection they got as high as 1600 b-12 blood serum levels but i still had symptoms brain fog and fatigue and lots more long story short i have MTHFR/endocrine problems
hypothyroid, hypogonadism, adrenal problems cortisol was low side of normal, dhea was low, my doc has worked with me on HRT
hormone replacement therapy was put on cerefolin nac for MTHFR
i have both gene mutations which is why i have high homocystein levels which are now improving since taking the methyl b vitamins
and p5p (b6) more active form i was checked for cancers so far none have been found thank God I am not a doc but hang in there and change doc if you have to i have been thru 20 docs since all this began and the doc i have now has done the most every day i have more hope. Good luck and God bless there are answers just don't give up also remember nutrition is also very important i take over 30 supplements to keep every thing metabolizing properly enyzmes very important.
How strange. I have low RBC & high MCH & no Dr's ever take that seriously. Not that I do either, but (a) I am now pregnant & (b) I was just thinking "if its B12, I'll just up mine so I get back into normal range" (after google diagnosis of course!). Well, guess what? I have 2 copies of MHFR too! My mouth almost dropped to the floor when I read yours & Anon's posts. I am currently 16wks pregnant, but tried so many times & lost 4 babies AND had trouble getting pregs, so that's how we found my MTHFR (but homocysteine ok). Currently on lovenox injections into the stomach, L-5-MTHF, B6 & B12 (Metanx). I have only gotten this far b/c I DEMAND treatment & if 1 Dr doesn't give a sh**, then I go to another, then another, then a naturopath, acupuncturist, etc! Its really truly sad as this takes so much time, $ & effort - just to find that 1 Dr out of 15 that "may care".
ReplyDeleteGet MTHFR test & get tested for those vits like the one lady said (10/21/12 Anon) - I am going to go get her tests as I was also told that my B12 & B6 tests just weren't very reliable bc of something-or-other (measures blood not absorption? whatever) so you have to get special tests.
Good luck!
I've followed this thread and am grateful for all those who have shared information. Could anyone help with a result I was just given which includes: low WBC, High MCV and MCH and low Neutrophils? I've looked each up individually but don't know what they mean when reviewed together.
ReplyDeleteThank you
You need to see a hematologist/oncologist so they can run other tests. How are your platelets? Are they low as well? Is your RBC on the low side as well. Make sure they do not just a simple CBC, but a test called a CBC with differential. That test breaks down all your precursor cells (stem cells) that indicate how many of those will then become full RBC or WBC. Just those low levels you indicated alone are not answer enough. You really need other testing and soon. Don't put it off. Maybe ask if tumor markers should be done as well? Good luck.
DeleteHemo guys gonna tell ya "Sorry can't help ya"
DeleteJust stumbled onto your blob. I'm not a doctor but have you checked your symptoms against Lyme Disease? You sound exactly like me and I have it. I've got the high MCV and MCH levels. Lyme eat B cells-thus the anemia and a ton of other things. Brain fog, Tinnitus, , stomach pain, joint pain, D deficiency, migraines, fatigue and anemia, fever-flue like symptoms, heat intolerance are pretty classic. Most doctors don't know how to treat Lyme so should you pursue this, look for an LLMD (Lyme Literate Medical Doctor). They are specially trained to recognize this disease through even clinical observations and not relying solely on lab work. It's easy to contact the CDC and ask for LLMD's in your area. Be sure to include your zip code and they will respond very quickly. btw...Lyme is called The Great Mimic because it can look like so many different illnesses and diseases.
ReplyDeleteBest Wishes,
Cherie
I must add to my previous post. I have been tested for every autoimmune disease, endocrine disease, lyme disease, HIV, with every PET, CT, MRI, EDG, Colonoscopy, Capsule EDG, echocardiograms, you name it! I am at the labs for blood work constantly! Every visit, an average of 14 blood tests, 24 urines to the point I am tired of peeing in a collection container! But I am not going to give up. I have been ill with what I now see have been flares, triggered by a medication, or surgery, or some other unknown as of yet event. I even blacked out once already! But I just keep getting worse. The past two weeks I have had angina, but my heart is fine. It is the pain that just keeps getting worse, pain everywhere. Even my eyes. Some days I can hardly see out of them. Earlier in this process I was told the whole anxiety thing, but I knew better being a nurse, so I just force my doctors. If they don't like it, I fire them and move on! I just want everyone on this post to know to always question and find an experienced doctor. One with years and years of practice. Having worked with every level at the University of Chicago, an excellent med school, they were top notch. But now that I live in Florida I am plagued with doctors that have only practiced 2 years and they have gone to med schools that are cutting residencies short in order to push doctors out due to a shortage. So beware! And don't take meds unknowingly unless you know for sure that you really need them! Many doctors love to push drugs, but the side effects and adverse reactions can be dangerous. Question, question, question, and then research, research, research before you accept anything that is done to you. It's your body and your life. Don't willingly hand it off to someone that does not know you! You must get an experienced doctor that you can trust first before accepting any diagnosis.... and fire those that won't accept irregularities on blood tests that could lead you to having a serious disease process down the road! Best wishes to all who are suffering and looking for answers.
ReplyDeleteWhere did you get the Lyme test? You sound like prime canidate of lyme, it causes extreme eye pain as well.. Mine felt like being stabbed with ice picks, I also have it....
DeleteYou NEED to get tested through IgeneX and get it done through a LLMD, that is the only way for sure if you will know or not... The CDC standard Western Blot is not a good enough test..
Recently my blood tests showed low RBC, High MCH, Low MPV, high MONO %, and very low ALKP
I also supplement with high dose b12 and folate daily, as well as other vitamins and minerals.
Lyme is the first thing that occurred to me, too. I am too familiar on a personal level of your list of symptoms. :{
DeleteTest your house for mould, I lucky ME< besides being MTHFR, am HLA-DR 100% susceptible to moulds........ This was my trigger, mouldy house, cant see it, but tested ppostive, water damaged building, ex meth house, bad build, and 8 x toxic moulds................... I didnt test pos to Lyme, doc wants more tests (the last were Germany) Mould illness, ie CIRS is the same.... look up mould illness, get HLA DR tested, as well as MTHFR, LUCKY me, I got both. angela coral eisenhauer facebook, or email angelaoffer@hotmail.com
DeleteIts no mystery why u are sick... look up BT in your food, Chemtrails in your air, and Nuclear fallout from japan, all will destroy RBC's and more. Which BTW will keep your HGB, HCT, MCV, and MCH at high levels due to the hemolytic effect.
ReplyDeletehttp://holisticlivingthatworks.blogspot.com/
Hi, I have a low red and white blood cell count, high ba% and, this is weird, a high MCH but a low MCHC. I have brain fog, awful fatigue, horrible chemical sensitivity, constant ringing in ears, my hips hurt a lot ...about to go on disability, thought it was chronic fatigue but now new tests say ANA positive with a 1:640 titer and low C complement, which I am told means autoimmune. I don't have any of the other symptoms of lupus - no rash, etc - and no antibodies to anything else - my doc thinks its shogrens which I don't have symptoms of either. I'm so tired of this. Tried food rotation, paleo, energy work, organ supplements, meditation, glutathione and vit B injections, Methylator support, etc. nothing helps and I keep getting worse. It's not lime disease. Anyone have any thoughts out there? Only symptoms of Shogrens are the light sensitvity in my eyes and fatigue. The low white and red blood cell count has been consistent for the last 4 years. Also I had breast cancer 10 years ago, no chemo or radiation, just lots of surgeries that put a lot of stress on my body. I had my first "flare" of whatever this is right after that. Thyroid is ok. Help please!
ReplyDeleteYou sound like you are anemic or iron deficient. You can be for years before it Will shows on bloods lab ranges are out of date. Ferritin is the best test to check even ask for recent results anything below 50 is iron depletion even though lab ranges are much lower. Look up symptoms of low Ferritin or iron deficiency you have them all.
DeleteYou sound like you are anemic or iron deficient. You can be for years before it Will shows on bloods lab ranges are out of date. Ferritin is the best test to check even ask for recent results anything below 50 is iron depletion even though lab ranges are much lower. Look up symptoms of low Ferritin or iron deficiency you have them all.
DeleteYou sound like you are anemic or iron deficient. You can be for years before it Will shows on bloods lab ranges are out of date. Ferritin is the best test to check even ask for recent results anything below 50 is iron depletion even though lab ranges are much lower. Look up symptoms of low Ferritin or iron deficiency you have them all.
DeleteDoes anyone know what MCHIC stands for? I've been plagued with a scalded, painful face and ears and severe allergies for the past year and have been given prednisone and an anti-malaria prescription for the rest of my life. I appreciate anyone's help with this.
ReplyDeleteAudry
anti malaria? god just take MMS for two days, malaria gone.............
Deleteand dont get any more vaccines! they are full of contaminants, all these illnesses, were injected into us, good luck find me on google. I am a sufferer, I dont earn from telling the damn truth,
DeleteI have the same high much low RBC as many have discussed...I have found temporary relief from the headaches and fatigue by getting a phlebotomy about every 6 weeks. It is old school but I generally feel much better after having it. Just a thought...again its temporary but an amazing relief.
ReplyDeleteMy symptoms are similar to many of you. Have your ferrentin and iron saturation tested. Hemochromotosis is a blood disease associated with these symptoms. Having a weekly or monthly phlebotomy may help your symptoms.
ReplyDeleteI urge all of you to consider getting tested for the SNP genetic defects, so you know what you are dealing with and can personalize a plan of care. Dr Ben Lynch's website is a good starting point. Testing including both MTHFR defects and also the MTR/MTRR that have to do with B12 function and recycling. I am a NP/RN and have been treating myself after being tested through 23andME and I am amazed at the improvements in my health. Most main stream providers know and care nothing about this unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteLike stated before, a high MCH can mean many things. The most common thing is B12 deficiency or B9 (folic acid/folate) deficiency or BOTH. In my case it was both. I started exercising extraneously and over time, I started feeling all the symptoms that characterize anemia (I guess I was low before I started exercising). I went to the doctor and my CBC came back with mcv of 104, mch 38, mchc 37 and rdw of 11.6 (mcv limit for my lab is 97 and mch is 32). My b12 level in serum was 40, yeah that low. My right leg/knee would hurt like no tomorrow. I refused b12 injections and started taking 1500 mcg of b12 methlycolabamin. Within a couple of days I started feeling better. Doc recommended an b complex with 1000 to 1500 mcg of b12, but since I felt better, I went for even more, 1000 mcg more for a total of 2500 mcg per day for 75 days. Retested it again and my b12 serum level was 800. My lab values were mcv 97, mch 34, mchc 35 and rdw 12. Since my b12 was high enough, mch a bit out of range, and mcv borderline high, doc had me tested for folate, and it came back a bit low. Now, I'm taking 800 mcg of folate for 30 days. Hopefully this will make all my values within limits. Also, I was high on serum iron due to these deficiencies. I believe the first test had 188 and the latest test had 175 of iron (limit 155). It's important to fix b12 deficiencies BEFORE folic deficiencies and make sure you have adequate levels of iron and potassium. Apparently, there is an intricate relationship between b12, folate, iron, and potassium. I think, I don't know, that taking too much b12 can make your folate low, which is what I think happened in my case, of course, I could be wrong. Now, as a 40 year old male, I'm able to work out like a beast, and run a mile right under 7 mins.
ReplyDeletePS: This is just my story and in no way is meant to give you any advise on what to do. Consult a physician.
Single dad here with a beautiful 9-year old daughter.
ReplyDeleteMy labs came out out of range on the MCV at 103, and MCH at 34.1, which are both high.
What may be the causes? My vitamin D is low, at 23.
You should get a work up for Thalassemia. With the numbers you have presented, especially the HIGH MCV; I would highly recommend it.
DeleteMr. Hernandez, I'm NOT a Doc, but it could be one or several things. I would start with the most common, I would request a test for b12, actually I would request the MMA test to check for possible B12 deficiency better. Maybe look into stool testing (for parasites), diabetes (A1C, metabolic panel) (diabetes has been known to deplete b vitamins especially b1 and b12), etc. As for the D vitamin, do you get enough sun exposure? If not, I would look into getting D3. People living above the 32nd parallel north and the elderly are most likely to be deficient. Vitamin D works best with a little bit of magnesium, the chelated kind is best. Also, B12 works best with potassium (too much potassium is bad, as it's the excess of anything else). This is just my 2 cents. Talk to your doctor before doing anything that affects your health.
ReplyDeleteI meant 37th parallel north, I don't know why I was thinking 32nd.
DeleteFirst of all YOU WILL NEVER GET ENOUGH SUN LIGHT to give you all the D vitamin you need, that is a myth. FACT look it up.
DeleteLow ferritin causes low mcv, mchc. Low b12/folate causes high mcv, mchc. If both are low then this causes falsely normal results.
ReplyDeleteHAEMATOLOGY
ReplyDeleteHaemoglobin (Hb) - 14.7 g/dL 13.0 - 17.0
RBC Count - 4.42 millions/cu.mm 4.50 - 5.50
HCT - 46.3 % 40.0 - 50.0
MCV - 104.8 fL 80.0 - 100.0
MCH - 33.4 pg 27.0 - 32.0
MCHC - 31.9 gm/dL 32.0 - 35.0
RDW - 13.3 % 11.5 - 14.5
(TLC) - 10.9 X10^3/uL 4.0 - 10
Vitamin B12 - 343
My Cholestrol level was high but now its normal after taking Arvast 15mg from past 6 weeks
I dont take alcohol but doo smoke
Can anyone help me to know the reason for high MCH. My doctor said High MCH is due to low vitamin b12 or due to drinking alcohol
but i don't drink alcohol and my Vitamin B12 report is normal.
Regards
Dk
Cholestrol levels, they changed over the years whats good and bad, first 200 was fine, now they lowered it to 180, it's all BS cause they tested over 1100 employees at our CO. one dude had 400 this was 30 years ago and he's still living just fine. That's all BS too, mine was 226 then and stayed the same it's the same now as 30 years ago. Ave. employee was over 300 so everyone is fine.
DeleteI have read all of the above and can see that most of us share some common ground. I have had High MCV for 25 years. It started out at 111 and has fluctuated over the years. My recent doctor has decided to step out of the box and test for other causes than B12 and folate. I have also Lo RBC and High HCH. Sever hypothyroid after having a goiter and radio active iodine 40 years ago. MCS(multiple chemical Sensitivity), Chronic Fatigue, IBS, Celiacs, Multiple food allergies and various air related allergies. I suffer from severe headaches, leg pains, hip pains, very sensitive to light, brain fog, bad taste in mouth low body temp and low blood pressure. These are a few of the symptoms and illnesses I am living with and no specific diagnosis.
ReplyDeleteThe tests I am having done now are intrinsic factor, Anti Nuclear Antibodies, Endomysial Antibodies, various protein tests, and the usual CBC and RBC analysis. My TSH, T3 and T4 seem to always be out of whack and presently my TSH is low at .ll.
After reading all of the above and having had 35 years of testing to death I have yet to find an answer to these problems or at least why my blood tests are so abnormal regardless of what I take or do. I even had a bone biopsy which proved I had Very large red blood cells and irregular shape and neutrophils. BUT my b12 was within normal range. I don't drink alcohol ever and live the purest lifestyle and eat only organic foods, exercise when I am well.
Here is the kicker my son who recently turned 40 is now diagnosed with the same problem as I have. And he became aware of this after taking ASA and having blood welts all over his body. After blood testing he showed results similar to my blood tests. He had normal blood before this. SO I am wondering is this some kind of family genetic thing? I am of Scandinavian background. I am intrigued by this as I have only considered this to be my problem not something my children would inherit. Anyone else with this same situation?
Have you and your son checked for decreases IgA, IgG, and IgM. It most definitely can be acquired, as in your sons case. It is called Common Variable Immune Deficiency or cvid or hypogammaglobulinemia.
DeleteI see many have had vitamin b12 injections but for cvid you need IgG infusions.
This is where I go next as well as my possible secondary illnesses caused by cvid.
Peace......
I just want to comment here to be notified of replies. How do I do that?
DeleteYou need an MRI of your brain and spine to see if you have a condition like an arachnoid cyst that could be there from birth causing headaches and pains from nerve problems. If you are on thyroid pills you might need the ones with T3. You can keep your TSH low because you don't need it without a thyroid gland. You need T3 and T4. Some people aren't good at making T3 from the T4 medicine.
DeleteFor those that have had 'normal' B12 tests. The key test to be done is an MMA test - if high you very likely have a B12 deficiency, despite the 'normal' result. TCN2 variants can impair B12 absorption into the cells resulting in B12 deficiency, hence high MMA.
Delete
ReplyDeleteAlthough I have had high indices of MCH, MCV, and MPV for over ten years now, I was diagnosed with low IgG a couple of years ago, known as Common Variable Immune Deficiency (CVID), also known as hypogammaglobulinemia. With this disease a person is susesptable to secondary diseases. For me, they have been watching for lymphoma. And bone marrow problems. My most recent blood work now shows an elevated wbc, and the mcv, mch mpv continue to be highly elevated. They have always been way over the norm so just not by a point or two.
I also have degenerative disc disease and my most recent lumbar mri showed something going on in the bone marrow. The cervical mri also showed some mass effect with grainy tissue.
With all these new findings for me, it is time to revisit my doctor. He is concerned about a mass that comes and goes on my neck (his words, not mine).
To sum....... I wonder if anyone has any comments about my situation.
Peace......
need answers please.. I have a very high wbc, low rbc and high mch levels. as well as multiple cbc test at borderline high or low. I have been dealing with fatigue, severe brain fog, loss of weight and all the same symptoms as almost everyone else had described. I was ruled out Lyme, hiv, sickle cell. but have anemia, but dont know which form. Also was told have a bone marrow issue that will need a biopsy and aspiration and density test. Also a blood deficiency . I have had gallbladder removed a month ago due to severe infection without stones or anything. I do not drink rarely smoke, And just hoping for some answers
ReplyDeleteneed answers please.. I have a very high wbc, low rbc and high mch levels. as well as multiple cbc test at borderline high or low. I have been dealing with fatigue, severe brain fog, loss of weight and all the same symptoms as almost everyone else had described. I was ruled out Lyme, hiv, sickle cell. but have anemia, but dont know which form. Also was told have a bone marrow issue that will need a biopsy and aspiration and density test. Also a blood deficiency . I have had gallbladder removed a month ago due to severe infection without stones or anything. I do not drink rarely smoke, And just hoping for some answers
ReplyDeleteneed answers please.. I have a very high wbc, low rbc and high mch levels. as well as multiple cbc test at borderline high or low. I have been dealing with fatigue, severe brain fog, loss of weight and all the same symptoms as almost everyone else had described. I was ruled out Lyme, hiv, sickle cell. but have anemia, but dont know which form. Also was told have a bone marrow issue that will need a biopsy and aspiration and density test. Also a blood deficiency . I have had gallbladder removed a month ago due to severe infection without stones or anything. I do not drink rarely smoke, And just hoping for some answers
ReplyDeleteGet your dna done and upload it to genetic genie to get your methylation report and you will know whats wrong and how you can and cant treat it. My sons MCH was high and B12. In his case he has a genetic inability to metabolize folate and yes he has been fatigued his whole life.... Until now. Your Dr. trying to figure it out without your dna is the blind leading the blind.
ReplyDeleteJudging from the posts high MCH sounds too rare for the md's to give it any attention. Seems that everyone is told it's not enough B12 and guess what? We can all read and probably have read as much as the md's have done if not more. Dismissive? Darn right. I have asked and asked and it is shrugged off--so many times I lost count. I have had many events of unshakable foggy head for several years and can't find an anwer to that either. I'm told to not drink so much and get more sleep. Pure BS because I don't drink and it has happened many times whether I get at lot of sleep or not. Bottom line is they don't have a clue and don't want to admit it. If it just "bad" blood, how about a nice bleeding like the medievel barbers used to do? It makes more sense than anything else I have heard.
ReplyDeleteIf they don't believe you about the amount you drink it means you have neurological symptoms you are not aware of. You must insist on MRI scans of the brain and spine.
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